what if saruman had gotten the ring

Lots of great, exclusive content, even discounts on our original merch! Sauron originally made the One Ring to enhance his ability to influence and suppress or control the wills of other beings, specifically the Children of Ilvatar (Elves, Dwarves, and Men). Without Rohan and Gondor, humans would be . Thank you! By clicking Accept All, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. The Uruk-hai capture Frodo and Sam at Amon Hen, thus Saruman gains possession of the most powerful of the Rings of Power, which carries in it, a greater part of Sauron's inherent might. Yet, he had . Some interesting conjecture, but you're forgetting that if anyone replaced Sauron as the "master" of the One Ruling Ring, they would sever Sauron's tie to the ring and essentially reduce him to an ineffectual spirit who could no longer interact with the physical world. 2463, Saruman was appointed its leader.Even then, he had begun to sense the resurgence of Sauron and to envy and desire his power, and especially his One Ring.Coincidentally, in that same year the One Ring was found by the creature Gollum, drawing the Dark Lord closer to the conflict that would eventually prove Saruman's undoing. Nor do we how long would it have taken for Saruman to master the powers of the Ring. Ummm, thats what the One Ring does for someone who has zero magical ability. I recall the Narsil having been forged by the elves, using elvish magic. Yet, he had something that needed to be done first. Which probably wouldn't have happened. His Spirit would continue in some astral realm, and would use His real weapon: TIME. You are using an out of date browser. Is Bosnia a developing or developed country? Narsil was no ordinary sword, and the Numenoreans weren't ordinary men either. Either way Sauron would've just destroyed him at some point if he got the ring back; Saruman getting the Ring is another . Plus, if the Stranger is Saruman, it also makes Gandalfs journey and decisions all the more important and emphasizes an ongoing theme in Tolkiens works: every being has the power to choose between good and evil, or selflessness vs. selfishness. That is, however, a legitimate concern when entering any fight: any weaponry you wield may be captured and used against you. How long before Sauron wrung out the truth from Saruman? He reasoned that his total control of Middle . Even if Saruman won this hypothetical battle, it would be ultimately irrelevant. The greatest act of disobedience in LOTR had possibly the greatest consequences which in the end saved the Quest of the Ring and saved Middle-Earth that being Eomer's act of disobedience. But there isn't a blind following of obedience in Tolkien at least not with wise and just characters depending on the circumstances. Ultimately, we dont know who the Stranger is, aside from being an Istar, or a wizard. There's this passage that describes what happened after the death of his physical body: To the dismay of those that stood by, about the body of Saruman a grey mist gathered, and rising slowly to a great height like smoke from a fire, as a pale shrouded figure it loomed over the Hill. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Saruman was known for being subtle in speech (with a powerful ability to sway others with his voice) and skilled in smithcraft. . Frodo was a hobbit with one companion, in the heart of Sauron's realm. For example, Beregond is reprimanded for leaving his post but is assigned to a position of honor by Aragorn in recognition of why he disobeyed. I also assume that Sauron would have eventually won the war. Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for science fiction and fantasy enthusiasts. You are using an out of date browser. By Luka Glavas / February 5, 2022. What would have happened if Saruman had gotten his hands on the One Ring? IIRC the idea of Galadriel taking it scared the bejeezus out of him. The Lord of the Rings doesnt have plot holes. My own feeling is that since it takes time to learn to master the Ring (also Letter 246), Sauron would have had to pay a visit immediately and before Saruman had the time to achieve this mastery. The Rise Of LOTR's Witch-king Of Angmar. #2. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Thanks for contributing an answer to Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange! I would think that Saruman, a Maia, would be in that category. If Im not mistaken, he is Vanyar? That Saruman is nothing like the Stranger who falls from the sky in The Rings of Power. Saruman wants to be Saurons only servant. Saruman probably would have become the dominant power in Middle Earth and turned it into a pretty crappy place to live. A couple of points to add to the excellent arguments thus far: This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". Anybody else who bore it (non-stop) would eventually be drawn to him, where he would get the Ring back. If he succeeded in doing that, Sauron would have been defeated because it was his saving anchor. Since both are immortal, Saruman is going to be tortured for a long, long, long, long, LONG time. Why does Gollum calling the ring his own not alert Sauron? What money is available for senior citizens? To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. -----Also check out our other channels!The 6th Ranger - (For all things Power Rangers! To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. In his actual presence none but very few of equal stature could have hoped to withhold it from him. Answer (1 of 13): If Saruman acquired the One Ring and had time to learn to use it, then he would go to war against Sauron. The Great Eye also features heavily in Peter Jacksons blockbuster big-screen adaptations, an ever-watchful flaming orb atop a massive stone obelisk. Both the direct and symbolic aspects could have helped Saruman expand his empire by winning adherents and frightening potential opponents. It has been suggested that the reason why Saruman lost access to magic after the . When Gandalf returned and revealed himself to Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas in Fangorn he said something to the effect of "in a way I'm now Saruman, but you can keep calling me Gandalf." Why are Suriname, Belize, and Guinea-Bissau classified as "Small Island Developing States"? Is Taco Bell healthier than other fast food? All betting content is intended for an . When Sauron was in Dol Guldur, he lay dormant most of the time. Would Saruman have been able to defeat Sauron with the power of the One Ring? On the other hand, if the Stranger is Saruman, consider that journey and how it makes his transformation all the more tragic. *Originally posted by Triskadecamus * It may have taken a while to learn to use the Ring to its full potential, and Sauron would surely have put everything he had behind trying to get it back, but itd be iffy, and he certainly couldnt use the Nazgul or other ring-empowered creatures against the weilder of the One. If Saruman had taken and claimed the Ring for his own, Sauron would have been aware of it immediately. Saruman later describes himself as "Ring-maker" when taunting Gandalf. JavaScript is disabled. In the book it is sort of implied that certain beings with sufficient power (e.g. What did Tolkien originally write? :)#LordoftheRingsWhatIf #Saruman #WhatIfSaruman Saruman is my favorite figure of all time . )https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpgaqH-cKuqvfKr1NL-yudg-----Don't forget to check out our Official website!www.thebrokensword.co.ukIf you want to support the channel, you can help us on our Patreon page. If not for Gandalf, Gondor might've fallen to Sauron. Tolkien says in Letter 246 that the Ring is not only comparable to "a devastating weapon" (which Frodo doesn't know how to use) but also to "an object of terror in their religious cult, by which they had been conditioned to treat one who wielded it with servility". It's much more likely that Saruman would have used the One Ring for himself and tried to claim Middle-earth as his own. The Lord of the Rings; Middle-Earth (Franchise) entertainment news He also had control of the nine kings and such or was supposed to, although didn't Elrond get a ring yet was present at the battle? Two Maiar duking it out at their full strength would have brought ruin to much of Middle-earth, and that was exactly what the Valar had hoped to avoid in the first place. After a comment from Gimli, Gandalf adds: "But Isengard cannot fight Mordor, unless Saruman first obtains the Ring. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. The White Wizard -- at the height of his power -- could have been a match for the Ringless Dark Lord. However, you may visit "Cookie Settings" to provide a controlled consent. For all things Tolkien, Lord of The Rings, and The Hobbit Press J to jump to the feed. Gandalf & Galadriel admitted they would eventually fall to evil will of Sauron through the One Ring. Furthermore, Saruman knows more about ring-lore than any other being in Middle Earth at the time, save only Sauron himself, and he had already made himself a minor ring, so he would learn how to use it quickly. Got caught and lost a mind-to-mind battle. It wasn't really a surprise. Well what DID the Ring do for Sauron? Seem's strange when the ring's main purpose was to rule over the rings/leaders? If he would have been strong enough to control the ring, what would have happened to Sauron? Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. He sees the Dark Lord as a rival and also an aspiration. At the beginning of the story, Saruman is more powerful than Gandalf. For these reasons, Tolkien tells us, the Nazgul (powerful though they were) would have hesitated to attack Frodo directly, after Frodo finally claimed the Ring for his own. Keep Your Powder Dry: Firearms for 5E Fantasy CampaignsNearly 40 firearms with customization options for 5E games, plus magic items, feats for gunslingers, and the alchemist character class! 5 Who controlled the Seeing Stone of Minas Anor? The Lord Of The Rings. Like the Valar He was created in the Beginning. vegan) just to try it, does this inconvenience the caterers and staff? Lucky hit or not, he was vulnerable to a mere sword with no great magical ability or anything displayed that showed the ring as some huge magnifier of magical ability. We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Latest Blog Post: Jacks Bad Movies Black Adam (2022). That he will never do now." Saruman with the Ring would presumably have tried to do what Tolkien says Galadriel or Gandalf might have done, if they have succumbed to the temptation of accepting the Ring: Does it shoot bolts of kickarse out of it's hilt? Covering the hottest movie and TV topics that fans want. A normal man with a normal sword would probably have failed miserably even if he had got in the lucky hit. As with Gandalf or Galadriel, the Ring would comply with the good intent of their first efforts. However, Saruman had planned his rise to power much earlier than that. I say this because Saruman would never have destroyed the ring and so the ring would have eventually consumed him since Sauron was its true master. We know of his ultimate betrayal against Middle-earth, maybe especially against his fellow Wizards and the Valar. And in The Rings of Power, when the mystics realized their error, they said the Stranger is the Istarnot one of the Istari, the Istar, as if only one is present in Middle-earth right now. Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? *shrugs*. Powered by Discourse, best viewed with JavaScript enabled. Tolkien edited by Christopher Tolkien. Not true. He did not fear Sauron, but rather was forbidden to contest with him directly. There's the slight possibility that Saruman would have given the One Ring to Sauron and served as lieutenant to the most powerful being in Middle-earth. Feel free to contact him by email at hawkins.blake12@gmail.com, or find him on Facebook. Saruman is ruined when the Riders of Rohan defeat his army and Merry and Pippin prompt the Ents to destroy Isengard. It does not store any personal data. They are not beasts. First off, it gives us an idea of how dangerous the Ring is- if the head of the Istari and White Council can . Saruman would have made a tasty little morsel for Sauron. What would have happened if Saruman had gotten the One Ring? The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. That was a major concern for Sauron, and one of the reasons he felt constrained to hurry his stroke to gain mastery of the world without the ring. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". RELATED: The Lord of the Rings: 10 Details About Sauron's Costume You Never Noticed This incident, one of those that was invented for the film to increase tension, is an incredible missed opportunity for the minions of the Dark . He writes about everything from NCIS to Stranger Things to The Walking Dead and everything in between. In Middle-earth history, it seems likely Saruman arrived before Gandalf did. Earlier in the same letter we see just exactly how useful the Ring would have been to a hypothetical Ring-bearing Saruman (or anyone else, for that matter): Sauron would not have feared the Ring! " The Hunt for the Ring " is a chapter in Unfinished Tales, a posthumously published work of J.R.R. I don't think we have enough information to answer this with certainty. Knowing where he ends up would make the Strangers current journey all the more fascinating. First of all: Yes, you probably should watch at least The Two Towers before reading much further: that movie is all about Saruman's plans and schemes.. Having said that, there's a combination of things that have driven Saruman to act the way he does in the Lord of the Rings trilogy. The Lord of the Rings is one of the best series of three fantasy adventure films, The Fellowship of the Ring (2001), The Two Towers (2002), and The Return of the King (2003), directed by Peter Jackson, based on the novel which was written by J. R. R. Tolkien.The series is widely regarded as the greatest and the most influential, it was also a huge success financially and is among the highest . Saruman is one of few "grey" characters in the books, meaning he's neither gone fully evil or good. He disobeyed his king but he held his loyalty to his people and by doing so he inadvertently saved Middle-Earth. If he could obtain or recreate the One Ring for himself, he would be able to rule Middle-earth just like Sauron did. Such uses can be done without permission from the copyright owner.In the event I use art of yours or you have any questions, please contact me and we'll get it sorted straight away! But I've been thinking. Tolkein himself said that it would have been a difficult battle, and might have gone either way, but that One of the true great powers could have dedfeated Sauron by using the Ring. Which routine is best for gaining muscle? I don't think we've been given enough information to say whether Saruman or Sauron would have won the fight. What are the benefits of digital signatures? Letter 246 describes a hypothetical confrontation between a hypothetical Ring-bearing Gandalf and Sauron: Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. In fact, he had started searching for the One Ring (and found Isildur's remains) well before the events of The Hobbit. Sarumaon told Gandalf that a new power was rising and noone could srand and therefore they should join that power. Tolkien. Tolkien's complex writings and retcons don't reveal a crystal-clear answer about Saruman arriving first, but if you go by The Silmarillion, Saruman did. Courage to ones fellows, hope in adversity, and comfort to the suffering were the powers enhanced by the three. So what's a few millennia. For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the . House of Dragons vs. Would Saruman have been able to defeat Sauron? He says: "Even reckoned as a lord and captain Saruman has grown very strong Saruman also had a mind to capture the Ring for himself [Sauron] now has Isengard to fear as well as Minas Tirith" The word "fear" seems important here. Come join us to discuss the works of Tolkien. Privacy Policy. If you know how to use it, its an *extremely* powerful magical artifact. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. There would have been one less Peter Jackson movie. Blake Hawkins has written TV and movie features and recaps for CBR since March of 2021. As mentioned, the Valar sent the Istari (who are Maiar spirits) to Middle-earth. Whether he judged correctly is another matter, but I would expect it to be a contest. Why Rings of Powers Fight Scenes Are Boring. Two Blue Wizards went with Saruman into the East. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? After all, they would both want the other one's full and utter . There was a Winged Nazgul operating near the area as well on the other side of the Anduin and thus closer to Frodo. What happens next? its forging) to end (the . So He would do what He did after His defeat by Isildur. He would have been able to control more people, and he would have had a much easier time dominating their wills. The Silmarillion says, In the likeness of men they appeared, old but vigorous. Only Crdan the Shipwright knew Sarumans identity. But what would have happened if things had worked out differently? In the hypothetic situation where Sauron thought, or knew, that Saruman had the Ring, I think he would have responded in a similar way. If Gandalf proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed, taken from him for ever. What If SARUMAN managed to get his hands on the One Ring and how that . That's when the Rohirrim attacked, allowing the Hobbits to escape into Fangorn forest. 3 Why didnt Gandalf use the giant eagles? All of Saruman's scheming nearly came to fruition in The Two Towers. Why didn't they bring the Ring to Valinor? This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Already Saruman had a lust for power and even desired the One Ring for himself. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. He concealed his identity and ran away whenever he was confronted. Is he stronger than the will of the ring? He eventually became the leader of the Istari because of all of them, he had most studied the devices of Sauron of old. In other words, he learned about dark magic and Ringlore and knew the enemy the best of the Istari. It's possible Saruman would have been able to defeat Sauron. He wanted the One Ring. They'd be capable of wielding it and would be a threat to Sauron, though Sauron would probably win in the end as The Ring was only . Nazgul were formidable opponants, under the right circumstances. He would have also learned where the Fellowship was broken and knowing the Ringbearer's true purpose would assume his destination would be the Black Gate which indeed it was until Gollum convinced Frodo otherwise. He'd have used his bird spies to scour the area and sent out Uruks on wargs and men on horses. After all, he was extremely powerful in his own right. How successful would Saruman be finding and capturing the Ringbearer in this scenario is speculative but one has to wonder would Sauron not notice this activity. All credit must go to the talented artists. Answer (1 of 12): I agree with what has been said. Doom to be destroyed and not taken to be used by some great leader. One other Seeing Stone has been accounted for: the Stone of Minas Anor. His three friends were smiling at him, but Gandalf was only managing an embarrassed smile towards the Lady. When the White Council was formed around T.A. New Movie News, Movie Trailers & upcoming Movie Reviews, Saruman Gaining the One Ring Would Have Doomed Middle-earth Even Faster, Thranduil Was a Jerk - But Lord of the Rings' Only Dark Elf Was Actually Evil, How Morgoth Created Glaurung and The Lord of the Rings' Dragons, REVIEW: Frank Miller Presents Ancient Enemies: The Djinni #1 Crafts a Compelling Origin Story, REVIEW: DC's Shazam! Sauron w. "In a hole in the ground there lived a rabbit? Sauron is the primary villain of The Lord Of The Rings. This one, too, was controlled by Sauron. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. After that there is no other mention of Aragorn and the Ring together. https://www.teespring.com/stores/historyoftheagesAlso here are our other social media links too! Basically it took a super-human with a super-sword to chop the ring off of Sauron's hand and he only did that with a lucky hit. Indeed, Saruman needed no ring to become enslaved. Imagine that, after breaking of Fellowship, Saruman`s Uruk-Hai capture Frodo and bring him, with the ring, to Isengard. If the Uruk Army sent by Saruman had captured Frodo and had gotten the One Ring to Saruman, what would Saruman have done with it? Seem's strange when the ring's main purpose was to rule over the rings/leaders? At the same time, most of the Elves were leaving Middle-earth, and Saruman betrayed everyone and joined Sauron. The heroes in The Lord of the Rings did everything to keep the One Ring away from Sauron, but what would have happened if Saruman had gotten it? The eagles cant carry the Fellowship to Mordor because Gandalf cant simply summon a squadron of birds to divebomb Mount Doom. 2 What would happen if Gandalf had the ring? Also, it says in the book that the Nazgul went to Isengard demanding news of the ring and if Sauraman had the ring, Sauraman said if I had the ring you would bow down to me and call me lord I think Saruman would've won if he captured the ring. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. Saruman had decided to abandon his mission as an Istari and join Sauron in subjugating Middle-earth. As such, Saruman wouldn't have been able to use the Ring against Sauron, per se. They sang in the Music or the Ainur and were commanders of Morgoth's armies. Saruman was most skilled in Ring Lore, save Sauron. Forces from Mordor and Rhun would have been sent to fight their way through Rohan, leaving Minas Tirith undefeated to the south. To a lesser degree Faramir's disobedience also saved the Quest. When the good wizard Saruman uses one to spy on the peoples of Middle-earth, he is drawn in by its power and ensnared by . Either way, the good guys loose big. After a comment from Gimli, Gandalf adds: "But Isengard cannot fight Mordor, unless Saruman first obtains the Ring. It was literally Sauron's essence made into an inanimate object. But the Ring and all its works would have endured. Tolkien Blog - by Michael Martinez I'm a little vague on this point. With the more powerful becoming all the more corrupted. Unfortunately, the woman did not remember the name of the stone and we will be in St. Thomas next week (YEAY) so I was wondering if anyone had any idea what this stone . The three, which Celebrimbor made, were not made to gain dominion over others. Keep in mind the Ring doesn't only have Sauron's power in it. We learn that Denethor, steward of Gondor, had used the Palantir to divine knowledge of the Enemys movements only just before the steward burns himself alive.

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