brent metcalfe excommunicated

I found this podcast to be very fascinating. brent metcalfe excommunicated. I think that it speaks volumes about their powers of discernment and what they truly think about Joseph Smith. I suppose the precedent was set by Joseph himself in burning down the Nauvoo Expositor because he didnt like the content, and labelled it anti Mormonit wasnt even, William Law was a believer, who could no longer take Josephs hypocrisy. An anonymous source reported that Roy Doxey, then the director of church correlation, wanted to know about the papers Metcalfe was studying at the Church Historical Library, which were on Elias Smith and others. I think that the Salt Lake LDS church is concerned with becoming the RLDS church, which has changed its narrative to a very noncompelling one, and about 80% of its members have left. Would a hypothesis like that hold any water? I cant wait to listen to the second half! It seems to me that going with what you may think everyone around knows is right (even if it isnt) more easily allows for these kinds of experiences more than realizing there are differences of opinion and thought and then vying for spiritual confirmation. From Spencer Kimballs battle with dementia to Monsons where the hell is that driver, to the insights with Mark E Peterson, Brents influential instructors at the University of Utah. It didnt have anything to do with church history or anything you would read in something like the CES letter, but was instead a realization and acceptance that its not me, its the church followed by a complete collapse of everything. Phooey to that. Its a band called The Lower Lights. The weaker the church gets the better it gets and when it is completely impotent and ceases to exist it will be the best it can ever be. Anyone know what that is and where I can find out more? Since unit growth of the church is now in decline and growing slower than U.S. and world population growth, how do you see the future of the church and its doctrines? Thank you for this very interesting presentation. Helping us understand all the ins and outs of this tale throughout the three episodes of this series is Brent Metcalfe, so lets find out more about him, shall we? I am so grateful I stumbled across them along with D. Michael Quinns books wow now 20 years ago. She is professor emeritus of history at Read more hope my comment wasnt insensitive! Thanks again for your contribution to Mormon Studies and particularly for your diplomatic engagement with your critics. My epiphany also came suddenly, while driving, followed by a massive emotional experience. Few people had more of a front-row seat than Brent Metcalfe to the goings-on surrounding Mark Hofmann, the Salamander Letter, and the tragic events of October 1985 what would be dubbed as the Mormon Murders.. @John, thank you for all the hours you put in. But being new to the church and so unacquainted with church matters and such things I was not much help. 52K views 2 years ago Iowa's Brent Metcalf took down Ohio State's Lance Palmer in a thrilling title bout at 149 pounds in the 2010 NCAA wrestling championships. Awesome music, right? :-) I really R E A L L Y loved the podcast, and will listen to it all again today. I do not have that ability as I actually changed an Economics major when I took my first accounting class. How was Christensen reimbursed or rewarded by the Church for his document ventures? Brent Metcalf. We were both greenies at the same time. 497: Brent Metcalfe Part 3 -- After the Hofmann bombings and his excommunication (2014 Podcast Episode) Plot Showing all 0 items Jump to: Summaries It looks like we don't have any Plot Summaries for this title yet. Metcalfe is on the editorial board of the John Whitmer Historical Association. Im curious who is singing Lead Kindly Light in this its beautiful. $95k AVERAGE INCOME Our wealth data indicates income average is $95k. After returning from Iraq after the 2nd deployment as a citizen soldier, I had the same epiphany as Brent; I learned that we are really on our own, there is no God. In Part 3, Brent discusses the aftermath of the Hofmann murders, including the trial and Hofmanns eventual plea deal. And if Christianity/Mormonism is *false*, then were being done a tremendous service in this falsification. The insight into the many corners of Mormonism important to us here was delicious. The Gift of the Mormon Faith Crisis Podcast. When I was on my mission in the early 70s, we were encouraged to show a film called Ancient America Speaks. Cookie Notice Before Mark Hoffman was exposed as a forger, was there anything that made you wonder how he managed to make so many great finds? Vol. What did they accomplish by kicking any of you out? :). Truth or legend? 1) In your opinion, which group is currently winning in their arguments regarding the truth claims of church, the critics or the apologetics? When will the big book about the Egytian papers be out? Talk about ADD. I still remember the demo you and your friends gave in the Rec Hall for Mutual. In another post Ill comment on the Mark Hoffman affair. Thank you as well for your research, especially your work on New Approaches to the Book of Mormon. This is one of my all-time favorites. Learn how your comment data is processed. He was enthusiastic about scholars allegedly validating his translations through secular methods (e.g., Charles Anthon on the BoMor characters and Michael Chandlers anonymous scholars on the BoAbr papyri). John, you asked for information about any of the Christensens. Now, alas, Im left to figure out why I dont personally do more to address the real-life hell that is meanwhile breaking loose in the world, now that I understand also that no gods exist to help us. but he threw out the baby with the bath water as if the success of Christianity rode on the success of Joseph Smith.. Mark Metcalfe Project Manager - Heavy Lift Division at Western Mechanical Electrical Millwright Services Ltd. Kitchener, Ontario, Canada 500+ connections I was a newly returned missionary at BYU when all of this took place. Oh, that would be great! Categories . This was very similar to my experience. Two more parts (3 & 4) to come. The Version table provides details related to the release that this issue/RFE will be addressed. That piqued my interest in the whole sordid affair. That was fascinating, thank you. A question for Brent, What are your thoughts on your research of the book of Abraham? At one point John asks you if you think JS was putting together a scam or if you believe that he believed it himself. Im definitely a fan. Metcalf served as the National Freestyle Developmental Coach prior to . We may be on our own and need to create our own justice and future, but its possible that Providence does in fact sometimes intervene. https://egyptianalphabetandgrammar.blogspot.com/. Trent Nelson | The Salt Lake Tribune Dorie Olds is the ex-wife of Mormon bomber Mark Hofmann, who killed two people on Oct. 15, 1985. As coincidence would have it, a few months later I became her home teacher. !Cmoninstead, they were duped arranged for major amounts of $ to buy the letter up,bury it and then lie. As a personal friend and research assistant for both Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, Brent Metcalfe watched the whole episode unfold right before his eyes. Steve Christiansen was my bishop in that centerville ward and I grew up with his children. Brent, are you still working on a Book of Abraham book? Hamblin Methodological discussions have become commonplace in Mormon studies. I am quite sure, that film is no longer shown. It was awful so stressful. I do remember after my baptismal interview having a strong feeling of love and admiration for him because someone so respected thought I was special too. The second half was fascinating thank you, thank you, thank you for this podcast! I was in a mission conference in Bolivia when Steves younger brother was called out and told of the murder. Maxine Hanks was also in my ward. But such intellectual issues didnt play a role in my failure of faith. Brent is a fascinating interview for Mormon Stories for many reasons, including: He knew forger and bomber Mark Hofmann personally. I happened to not do soat least, not yet. This book was way above my reading level at the time and I wonder if that may be the biggest hurdle in reaching standard Mormons about the book and its challenges. Im not excited anymore. Thanks for the great podcast. Privacy Policy. the tall man aboriginal spirit; metadata api request failed: component conversion failed: file_ended; caleb foote sandlot Regardless of what one takes to be the truth of things, the evidence is not in favor of liberal religiosity as a recipe for church growth- those churches and communities which move away from their traditional truth claims tend to atrophy relatively speedily. Would that fit the time frame the book is given in? That said, I have to wonder what planet hes living on when he says that Catholicism has been reinvigorated in the post Vatican II era. Thank you both in advance. But thats when he came across books arguing the truthfulness of Mormonism and began questioning the same. I believe Brent said he has the copy in his records.**. My examples are numerous and heart breaking. I very much appreciated the beautiful memories and great stories Brent shared about what a remarkable and kind person Steve was. Published by on 7 czerwca 2022. I just discovered this on my own I bought every single issue of the 7th East Press, and was so disappointed that I missed picking up the final April Fools issue which appeared around campus after the edict banning it from being sold on campus. She spoke of her life and what has happened in the 30 years since one of Utah's most infamous crimes, Thursday October 8, 2015. As I went towards the house, this thought came into my mind, why do I feel so different from what I did a short time past : I am unspeakably happy and shall never see trouble again.. Ive always felt like crises of faith didnt quite describe my journey but Brent gave me the phrase that perfectly describes my experience. This one is up there with the best. Also, I appreciate you bringing up ADD. This was an important, affecting interview. Do you believe that your martial arts and mental training has contributed to your belief system and the independence from the crowd? I remember how the church/BYU was trying to treat this as a non-issue. These other people that had experiences dont seem to have a similar backlash evident. A scene from John Dehlin's upcoming disciplinary council, probably. He eventually concluded that the document was not an actual historical account and compiled a book of essays suggesting the same, entitling it New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology, published in the 90s. I also appreciate your parting words. I had a similar reaction to the section about ADD. Yes, please delineate with a rough timeline, recent vs. re-exposed critiques of the books. Im glad the church and BYU tried and I dont blame them for making the attempt to shore up the Book of Mormon. And am I the only one who likes the older music better? 1. I just saw the Netflix Documentary last night. Great interview. Did John take the tapes home to show his wife? In his response, he controversially included an encrypted message spelling out "Metcalfe is Butthead." Or if you have any thoughts on this John? I served a mission with the missionary mentioned by Brent. Dont know who the nuts are that Church Security referred to, but Jerald Tanner probably expressed the most legitimate concerns. Let me be equally clear that I dont believe that the BoAbr is an authentic translation of the papyri he possessed. On my mission in England I met a older, wise non LDS woman very knowledgeable on esoteric and metaphysics teachings. We have to learn to get along and improve our conditions wherever we are and it is a much more difficult task because of all the varied belief systems prevalent in the world. Menu. Hi Brent, Thank you for your insights and open heart. Gary at the time was an up-and-coming star because of his writing skills. It would yield some satisfaction to me, if my misery can be a cause of happiness to others; but when I came to the place of prayer, had kneeled down, and closed my eyes, with my hands uplifted toward the heavens, I saw Jesus Christ at the right hand of God looking down upon me, and God the Father looking upon him. And how many. And great questions John. Post-Vatican II a renaissance of sorts occurred in scriptural exegesis (for example, scholars no longer felt compelled to affirm the priority of Matthew and they began reassessing the synoptic gospels and John more critically). The triplet Egyptian Alphabet manuscripts and the bound Grammar and Alphabet of the Egyptian Language also elaborate the Katumin narrative. In secret, behind closed doors, who were they really betting on? Brent Metcalf was a bad dude in high school. Brent Metcalf (born July 14, 1986) is an American freestyle wrestler who formerly competed in the international circuit for the United States of America. In Gnosticism Abraham is not even a real person, the story represents the triumph of spirit over matter and is loaded with hidden symbolic meaning. Really, such a great family. God-belief has also been attributed partly to our brains evolved hyper-tendency to perceiveagency where none exists. Broad topics include my excommunication plus BoMor and BoAbr research. location 502, 899, 5027 of 9578, Last edited on 26 December 2022, at 05:30, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, "The LDS intellectual community and church leadership: A contemporary chronology", BOOK OF MORMON SCHOLARS UNLEASH SALVO OF BARBS, "MAPPING BOOK OF MORMON HISTORICITY DEBATESPART I", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brent_Lee_Metcalfe&oldid=1129585083, This page was last edited on 26 December 2022, at 05:30. Be the first to contribute! Im glad you found some of my remarks useful and thanks for the kind comments. Also, the rest of your experience is so totally mind-blowing-interesting. Now, in the wake of 200 years of such scholarship, the Bible doesnt hold up much better than the Book of Mormon. accounting for llc member buyout; black barber shops chicago; otto ohlendorf descendants; 97 4runner brake bleeding; Freundschaft aufhoren: zu welchem Zeitpunkt sera Semantik Starke & genau so wie parece fair ist und bleibt 7 czerwca 2022. I think we ought to be okay with these questions, and not automatically defensive. [4] Metcalfe assisted Hofmann in leaking the existence of the letter to the press, contrary to the wishes of the LDS Church. I think youre referring to what has collectively come to be known as the Michigan Relics. James E Talmage wrote quite a bit about them, back in the day. The Book of Abraham was a problem on my mission too, but we had to just ignore that issue, and wait for an answer. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Brent H Metcalf, 71 Resides in Salt Lake City, UT Lived In Sandy UT Related To Kyle Metcalf, Molly Metcalf, Kristy Metcalf, Nicole Metcalf Includes Address (3) Phone (4) Email (3) See Results Brent Charles Metcalf, 55 Resides in Lowell, AR Lived In Modesto CA, Oroville CA, Bonney Lake WA Also known as Gary Brent, Metcalf Brent She related all this to me and my companion. I've debated whether or not I should write about this, as I'm well aware the reception may be inflammatory, however it's something I'd like to get off my chest. What was the arrangement and the special business relationship Steven had with the Church in this regard? She was in the middle of her frustrations with the MTC (and some of you know the story). Steven Christensen (son of Mr. Mac), one of Mark Hofmanns victims. Im with you on the music Charles!! I was going to ask the same thing. Why do you think it is that the church is so fearful of discoveries such as the letters by Mark H ? Thanks for the clarification. Why didnt the Lord reveal to the the prophet that Hofmann was going to kill? In the past, we often got snippets of information in The Church News, Lynn Jacobs was looked at carefully, I believe Brent Metcalf was looked at somewhat. Thank you John and Brent. Is having spiritual experiences while doing what some may view as critical research on the Book, when you know there may be opposing views to your work, grounds for also having these feelings? What advice does Brent have for aspiring Mormon historians? Id like to hear Mr. Metcalfe address the character, integrity and morals of LDS apostles and prophets with regard to the books of A and M. Regarding the recent essay published by the LDS church regarding the Book of Abraham; what does he think they got right and what does he think is wrong? I may have a chance to look for it next week, but Im not promising anything. Brent provided a detailed account of the Mark Hoffman story with a perspective that we seldom hear. Thanks to the both of you! After years of palling around with anti-Mormon apostates (e.g. In Part 6, we talk to Brent about his interactions and run-ins with prominent Mormon apologists like Daniel Peterson, Lou Midgley and others. Brent did a marvelous job of creating a context by which these events took place. Charles, I dont think I threw the baby out with the bathwater since my examination of the Hebrew and Christian scriptures resulted in the same intellectual concerns that I had with LDS scriptural extensions. Today the church has suffered too many blows to its claims of certainty to dare to treat its members the way it treated Brent Metcalfe. Published by on October 31, 2021. Read More: Where is Terri Christensen Now? "The Mormon murders: A true story of greed, forgery, deceit, and death." Is there going to be a part 3? Why didnt the Lord reveal to the prophet that the documents were forged? In Part 4, Brent examines some of the issues surrounding traditional approaches to the Book of Mormon. I felt like somehow I was responsible for what had happened. I have to assume hes simply speaking on the basis of snippets of information here and there without context, because this is clearly untrue. Thank you Brentyou are certainly one of the true Saturdays Warriors Thank you Mormonstories.org I am glad I came across your website! But before Brent could truly move on, he had to deal with the emotional turmoil of knowing that he was associated with Mark Hofmann. Best wishes, Brent! LDS was newly brought to her by a missionary before me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_relics. I felt like somehow I was responsible for what had happened. Thats what I expected from church leaders.I meanSalamander spirit !! I have some insights into that. You sound like a delightful guy. Brents work is groundbreaking and reliably fascinating. I heard he had left the church soon after returning home. Allegedly, he expressed too much "support" for Denver Snuffer, although by his own account, he would refuse to follow Snuffer if Snuffer had said that the LDS Church had gone totally astray.The individual, who identifies himself as Brent D. Larsen of the Eagle Mountain Utah Stake, discusses the . Come to the dark side and tell your story. Release Calendar Top 250 Movies Most Popular Movies Browse Movies by Genre Top Box Office Showtimes & Tickets Movie News India Movie Spotlight. Yes, thats the book, though the volume I perused was the first (1816) edition published in Portsmouth, NH. They use evidences such as paintings from the 1600s showing native americans using temple signs/tokens, apparent cuneiform writings being discovered that spell Yod Hey Va, and that the Hopewell/Adena Indians are the Nephites/Jaredites. funeral directors southend; penalty charge notice costs; johns manville headquarters address; Hello world! Let me clarify. Excellent question. Career Two-time NCAA and Big Ten Champion three-time all-American first wrestler in Big ten history to earn Outstanding Wrestler at the conference meet two straight years (2008, 2009) career winning percentage of .972 (108-3) ranks second all-time at Iowa 2008 Dan Hodge Trophy winner 2008 Jesse Owens Big Ten . In Part 3, Brent discusses the aftermath of the Hofmann murders, including the trial and Hoffman's eventual plea deal. The Gift of the Mormon Faith Crisis Podcast. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. All things praised God with me. I did enjoy the balance that your podcast once stood for; miss the balance. John Are you done interviewing faithful members or promoting faithful stories? [8] Personal life [ edit] Metcalfe is a native of New Zealand. Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. Now, along with all of the other historical and literary problems, including DNA evidence, we are suppose to accept it on feelings and the spirit.like all religions do with their own faiths.and be excited about sharing this book with our friends! Also, make sure your second recording matches the first. One question though, has Hoffman done any interviews since being in prison? The lack of discernment all the way back throughout all the church history The lack of congruence among the leadership with such a claim as who they say is at the head! What about your book did the church find cause to excommunicate you? Ive heard there might. [9][10] His father was the managing director of the Temple Department for the LDS Church. Research into the origins or Christianity strongly suggest that there are no babies only bathwater. Joseph Smiths myth-making leveraged Christian myth-making at the dawn of higher criticism. I love the podcasts. If Krakauer can interview Dan Lafferty, it might be possible. As soon as we can! Yes! Thank you for this interview. If you were to interview Mark Hofmann, what would your top questions be? Lance is a Gnostic priest and has written and spoken extensively on the Gnostic and esoteric flavor of Joseph Smiths writings. [1], In the early 1980s, Metcalfe contributed to the Seventh East Press and Sunstone, while at the same time worked as a security guard at the Church Office Building of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). He had not let on that the 7th East Press was his brainchild. Don't miss. I also wanted to tell you how disturbed I became to my very core about the way you were treated during your working for the church Then the description of the events of day of the bombings, where the meeting was still set with the GA! what happens if i ignore a ccj; ), Visitation of Hertfordshire 1572 & 1634 (London, 1886), 116. Why didnt the church just pay for their own documents? It is true that Mac Christiansen did pay for Marks sons mission. saw heaven open, and Jesus at the right hand of God, and the Heavenly hosts surrounding the throne, adoring the Father and the Son in the most sublime strains, (Hibbard, _Memoirs_, 181; cf. Looking forward to the interview! It was soul-crushing, Brent said. Brent's review of challenges to traditional approaches to the Book of Mormon. Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. I wish we could let go of the idea that a person can only be an expert in a particular field if they have a college degree saying they are. had the same reaction to the Sandra Tanners interview. A man with boldness of speech, and is often cited by members as one of the favourite apostles to hear from. [4] He grew up a member of the LDS Church in a devout family, and served a mission for the LDS Church. Do you think he will ever come completely clean? And now, as per reports, Brent Metcalfe has been able to construct a healthy and happy life for himself outside of Mormonism, where he can continue to work as an independent scholar and technical editor without any issues or restrictions. I think that the group is called FIRM, lead by Rod Meldrum, Jake Hilton, and Wayne May. Hinckley never responded, but was shortly thereafter offered the job by Christensen, which Metcalfe felt was orchestrated by Hinckley. The lengthy, five-part series covers Metcalfes childhood in Mormonism, his mission, his time []. What are your views about these books and how some contemporary Mormon scholars approach them as catalytic for revelation, though they may not specifically be historical? Thanks again Brent, no wonder you have had the experience you have shared with your faith about God. The 7th East Press is one of the great university newspapers; truly the stars aligned when this group got together. Thank you, I didnt know about that info. Did you ever suspect there was something not quite right with Mark Hoffman? I teared up with Brent during that part. Without good research, ours is a heritage shallow in meaning. For the listeners who are curious, a portion of the book describes a first vision, copied below: https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&output=reader&id=XH0rAAAAYAAJ&pg=GBS.PA54, The Lamb once slain appeared to my understanding, and while viewing him, I felt such love to him as I never felt to anything earthly. Arent we to try to gain understanding about life and spirituality? Ultimately, Id say (and I dont know that youd fundamentally disagree here) that its impossible to separate traditions like Catholicism or Mormonism from their fundamental and unique truth claims. It was torturous turning out essays to suit a particular lecturers preferences in order to gain high marks. Brent had some trouble remembering the details of the events (so did I, and I wasnt there, although I read all of the relevant literature at the time), but I think this is a very good summing up by Jerald Tanner, Confessions of a White Salamander: https://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/trackingconfessions1.htm. The gift of your ADHD shines. Sorry for my language, Im not a native English speaker and there is a limit to what I can express in English. In Episode 497, Brent Metcalfe shares an interesting fact that when Steve Christensen was called to be a Bishop that he told his Stake President that he would never excommunicate a member of his ward and if that was a problem that he wouldnt accept the calling. Rude Dog Never fear! brent metcalfe excommunicated. Copyright 2005 - 2023 | Mormon Stories. They even go so far as to claim that Zarahemla was directly across the river from Nauvoo, and that the waters of mormon are Big Springs, MO. I just looked down at the paper and I felt this wave of total anxiety come over me and then all of a sudden it was like my brain stopped working and it felt like I was looking at a different language. Ive known many of Brents views (his liking Raymond Brown, etc.) And a small footnote: Many of these original founders had been part of an on-campus group, called the Open Door Club. Powered by WordPress.com VIP. by Brent Metcalfe November 24, 2014 14 Comments Jan Shipps is the perfect inaugural interview for the Mormon Studies podcast. sorry, the book is called The Joseph Smith Egyptian Papyri, Not a question but I would very much like to hear Brents response to Kerry Muhlesteins recent FAIRMormon Conference presentation on the Book of Abraham. It instead discusses the fact that the LDS Church keeps some documents secret. Do you have any idea what his views are now about the church, what he did, etc.? :). Reminds me of the Mormon interpretation of Amos 3:7 (Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets). It is better thought of by non-Catholics (generally), but this has not translated into conversions or retention of cradle Catholics. I thought you were very well spoken Brent. Salamander: The story of the Mormon forgery murders. Brent, Thanks Brent for your sincerity, honesty and pleasant demeanor in which you talk about these things. I have heard metaphysics mentioned in one of the interviews (I think it was the one on post declaration polygamy). Why do you think the church is so fearful, silencing members and burying facts ? And how was it working with Mr. Ritner? What historical issues does he think are most worthy of exploration, and how would he suggest young aspiring researchers go about gathering and parsing primary and secondary sources? Brent Metcalf, who has been through personal tragedy, triumph and uncertainty can now call himself a national champion. I remember one time a BYU professor handed me a long quote to read out loud to the class when I walked in and I almost had the first major public panic attack of my life. Ack! Sincerely, Terry. Ive always wondered why the most ardently orthodox and pious seem to have the least faith in the divinity and omnipotence of the Lords plan. Thanks! document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. So, so good. What is your spirtuality/worldview like post-Mormonism? Lex, the recommendation by Andrew is a good resource. I am waiting patiently for part 3. Like I said they were casting that net as wide as they could get it. "BoMor" is a contraction preferred by Brent Metcalfe, who edited the book in which this paper appeared, and who likewise does not believe in the historicity of the Book of Mormon -- Metcalfe was exxed I think sometime after the infamous September Six.

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